Fetch Softworks

Upload results take long time to 'propagate' (13 posts)

• Started 14 years ago by Nancy
• Latest reply 13 years ago from Stan Coutant

• Nancy Member

  It used to be that results were immediate on the web after upload. Now it's taking many minutes (10-20) to show the uploaded results. This is causing me problems as I don't know if my CSS fixes are working or not for too long a time. I'm uploading to the right places---(I've been doing this for years)---the results are just delayed, even though Fetch says "transfer complete."

  Am I the only one having this problem? What can be done?

  Thank you.

  Posted 14 years ago #

• Scott McGuire Administrator

  Hi Nancy,

  Fetch doesn't have any control over how fast your updates appear in your web browser. Once Fetch says it's done uploading the files, the updated files are on the server; if there are apparent delays in seeing the results, that is not under Fetch's control.

  However, the most likely cause for this problem is that your web browser is showing you cached, out-of-date versions of your webpages instead of the current versions that you have just uploaded.

  Web browsers keep copies of recently viewed webpages on your hard drive, so that they can load them quicker than reading them from the Internet again. They are supposed to notice when the pages have changed, and then load a new copy, but sometimes they make mistakes and continue to show you out-of-date copies. This often happens when you have just looked at a page, made an update to it, and then looked at it again, all within a short time.

  The solution is to empty your web browser's cache, and then you should see the updated webpages. To do this in Safari:

  * Go to the Safari menu, and choose Empty Cache.
  * Safari will ask you if you're sure. Click the Empty button.
  * Then go to your website address, and view the pages to see if they look okay.

  Let us know if that helps or not.

  Thanks,

  Scott McGuire
  Fetch Softworks

  Posted 14 years ago #

• Nancy Member

  Thank you, but that's not it. I tried it. The problem is that only the CSS page doesn't reflect the changes I've made--the HTML pages do, immediately. The CSS changes can take 10 or even 45 minutes to be reflected live, after much "refreshing."

  I accept that it might not be Fetch's fault, as I can see the change in the "view" feature there. But how can all three of my computers, three browsers, and two operating systems all be at fault?

  I have hi-speed cable and have been doing web design for years. My codes are correct. I have Fetch 5.3. This has never happened before. I've even tried rebooting my systems and programs. It's been going on for at least three days now.

  I'm really stumped. Any other ideas? I'm about to go certifiably nuts and really need help with it.

  Thanks again.

  Posted 14 years ago #

• Scott McGuire Administrator

  Hi Nancy,

  You anticipated my next question, I was going to ask you to verify that you could see the changes to the .css file using the View feature in Fetch. But it sounds like the answer to that is yes, is that correct? That would be a definitive indication that all your changes made it to the server.

  Given that, I can't say that I've heard of something similar to this before.

  I can think of two possibilities, though. First, some Internet providers cache webpages themselves, to speed up the display of them to their customers (similar to your web browser's local cache, except the cache lives on one of the provider's servers, and instead of going directly to the webpage you request, it looks at the ISP's cache first). So I suppose it's possible that for some reason your .css file is getting cached by the ISP, and taking a while for that cache to update. I don't know if this is very likely or not, though; my understanding is they generally just do this for very popular websites, such as CNN.com and so on - so I'm not sure your website would be likely to get caught up in such a cache, if there is one.

  Second, it may be some problem with the server itself; that the server for some reason is not recognizing or serving up the changes to the .css file promptly.

  In either case, such a problem would affect all the browsers and computers in your office, because the problem is outside your office.

  My recommendation for a next step would be to contact the people who run the server, explain the problem to them, and see if they can look into it and explain it or suggestion what to try next.

  Please let us know if you have more questions.

  Thanks,

  Scott McGuire
  Fetch Softworks

  Posted 14 years ago #

• Nancy Member

  Thank you very much for your thoughtful answer, Scott. I will try what you say and contact the server.
  Nancy

  Posted 14 years ago #

• Nancy Member

  I found the problem. Apollo Hosting switched things with new management and instituted "varnish caching" a few weeks ago. Thanks a lot, Apollo. Three days of my life wasted trying to figure out what *I'd* been doing "wrong." It does, indeed, hang onto the css file before showing the changes live---sometimes as long as 45 minutes! (But not the HTML files--go figure).

  I'm off to find a hosting company that does NOT do this. I'd like to know how they think web designers can operate this way.

  Posted 14 years ago #

• Scott McGuire Administrator

  Hi Nancy,

  Well, I'm glad to hear you found the source of the problems, anyway - thanks for the followup.

  Good luck with your search for a new hosting company, and let us know if we can be of further assistance.

  Best,

  Scott McGuire
  Fetch Softworks

  Posted 14 years ago #

• Stan Coutant Member

  Thank goodness this question came up... FIVE MONTHS AGO. But no matter. As with Nancy, I was chomping at the bit, wondering why my CSS changes were taking hours, sometimes overnight, to propagate to my web pages. What a relief to read here that it's not bad coding. One observation I will share is that changes, additions, and deletions to EXTERNAL style sheets take forever (okay, hours) to appear. But changes to CSS data on the SAME PAGE as the affected HTML show up almost immediately. Perhaps the "refresh" function (or whatever it is called) between a page of HTML and its external CSS page is delayed (by the ISP's server), which is what Scott McGuire alluded to above. Regardless, thanks for this forum, and thanks for Fetch, which we have used for years and years and years.

  Posted 14 years ago #

• Nancy Member

  Glad to see this thread could still be of help. As stated, "varnish caching" at Apollo Hosting was the culprit, not coding or Fetch. I dumped Apollo and switched to Bluehost, which is a great hosting company. Fetch has been golden for years and years and their tech help is friendly and reliable. (But rarely if ever needed!)

  Posted 14 years ago #

• Stan Coutant Member

  Thank you, Nancy. Of course I concur: We have called upon Fetch tech support perhaps twice in what, twenty years? Has it really been that long? Anyway, it is a superb application with good people behind it.

  Continued success in your endeavors.

  Posted 14 years ago #

• Scott McGuire Administrator

  Hi Stan and Nancy,

  Thanks very much for the kind words!

  Stan, thanks for the additional thoughts and we're glad the message board helped you figure out the problem. And thanks to Nancy for providing the original information about what her hosting provider was doing!

  And should you run into problems in the future - although we hope you don't - we're here ready to help.

  Best,

  Scott McGuire
  Fetch Softworks

  Posted 14 years ago #

• Thaddeus Member

  Thank you for this thread.
  I had the same thing driving me nuts !!!!

  I will also look into the "varnish caching" thing.

  I know there are apps which let you run a CSS page without uploading it, but, i don't have that, just coding by hand (BB Edit).

  Thanks again !

  Thaddeus.

  Posted 13 years ago #

• Stan Coutant Member

  Hi, Thaddeus. Me too regarding BBEdit. I would not want to be without it. As for testing an external style sheet without uploading it first, I am discovering that the results may vary when the opposite is true: Viewing one's hypertext locally rather than uploading it first can cause some elements of an external style sheet to fail to show, even when the external style sheet has been uploaded to the server.

  Case in point: I have been experimenting with some of the CSS 3 design enhancements, such as text-shadow, box-shadow, border-radius, and font-embedding. (The font-embedding is via the font.com website's beta program, in which the fonts reside on font.com's server, and are called by a java script on my hypertext page.) If I specify these enhancements in an external style sheet and upload the style sheet, the shadows, rounded corners, and embedded fonts appear in the (Safari) browser as long as the browser is looking at the hypertext that is on the server. But if I view my local hypertext in the same browser, some enhancements, especially the embedded fonts, fail to appear.

  I'm still sorting out the reasons in my mind, and that process may take awhile before it makes sense. Nevertheless, I feel that CSS 3 holds great promise. I should add that not all browsers support CSS 3. (Using "CSS 3" in a Google search will bring a wealth of examples and explanations.)

  Continued success in your endeavors.

  Stan

  Posted 13 years ago #